Smart Athlete Podcast Ep. 151 – Filsan Abdiaman

[00:00:00] So my story with running began in 2013. That’s the official that’s what you’ll hear a lot of folks talking about or in other podcasts. But yeah, so I started running then and it was a way for me to sort of help manage my depression and anxiety at that time. It was after a breakup and I was turning to the running to sort of avoid having to go see a therapist.

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Jesse: [00:01:32] Welcome to the Smart Athlete Podcast. I’m your host Jesse Funk. My guest today is a certified running coach and a certified personal trainer. She is an ultra runner who also has a trail running side that she loves to do, which kind of goes with the territory with ultra runners. I don’t know that I’ve met any yet that don’t also like going out on the trails. She’s the founder of Project Love Run. You can find her on Instagram @Runner Instinct or @Project Love Run. Welcome to the show, Filsan Abdiaman.

Filsan: [00:02:05] Hey. Thank you for having me.

Jesse: [00:02:07] Yeah, thanks for joining me. It’s always nice. So for you, the listener, this comes out on Fridays, but we also record on Fridays. So I always get the pleasure of kind of kicking off my weekend by talking to really cool people. And though I know that the US and Canada share the largest uncontested border in the world, so we’re kind of we’re basically neighbors.

I still always I’m like a little kid where I’m like, “Cool. I’m talking to somebody in another country.” Like, I know Canada’s not that far. I’ve been to Canada, but there’s just something neat about being able to connect to somebody so physically far away. So thanks again for being part of that for me and again for joining me here.

Filsan: [00:02:56] Yeah. My pleasure.

Jesse: [00:02:58] So to kind of get people introduced to you a little bit, I know you didn’t really have an athletic background growing up, but you got into running kind of mid-twenties. I personally know a lot of people who ran for a long time and then a lot of other people who are like, “Why would you ever run?” But the amount of people that join or begin running kind of later in life I think is a smaller subset of people.

[00:03:33] So can you tell us a little bit about your story, how you found yourself deciding to do this thing that at least from kind of where I come from, there’s the people that have been doing it forever, seemingly, and the people that are just like, “No, thank you.” So tell me a little about how you got there.

Filsan: [00:03:52] Yeah. So my story with running began in 2013. That’s the official that’s what you’ll hear a lot of folks talking about or in other podcasts. But yeah, so I started running then and it was a way for me to sort of help manage my depression and anxiety at that time. It was after a breakup and I was turning to the running to sort of avoid having to go see a therapist. So rather than paying for therapy, I chose to run and I got addicted to it.

[00:04:49] I should also mention, like only in hindsight, as I’ve grown in this writing journey of mine, I’ve come to realize that there were other factors that led to me embracing the sport of running. And to give you more context, before I was a runner, I was a personal trainer, and I was working out with a trainer as well. I had a trainer and she actually encouraged me to take up running as a form of cardio to help with my strength training.

[00:05:25] And I didn’t realize it then. But having evolved, you can say as a runner and sort of piecing together my story of running, I realized that I was also using running as a tool to control my body, and that led to other complications much later in life, including my history of an eating disorder and sort of eating.

[00:05:59] But yeah, so there are many factors that contributed to my running, I would say. For the longest part though, however, I was focusing mainly on the running for my mental health story, and that’s what I told a lot of folks. But I did realize much later, I would say even just the last few years that I was using running as a tool to control my body and as a distraction from a lot of emotional turmoil that I was struggling with and just didn’t really have the necessary tools to deal with. But I think I answered your question.

Jesse: [00:06:42] Yeah, no, I think you got it. I’ve talked about this with a lot of different guests – the idea of running as therapy or is running therapy. And I think the general consensus is, is that it is therapeutic, but it is not a replacement for seeing a therapist. And I was trying to remember who my first guest was I talked to about that. And so, you know, you’re watching it or I’m sure Filsan was watching me give you this and you’re like, what is what is he doing? I was trying to look up the guest name and it just it just didn’t quite work.

[00:07:27] But it also remind me of Sarah McMahon, who I talked with relatively recently and this season. I think my very first guest I talked to it about the therapy was from season one. So three years ago now. Sarah also had an eating disorder and she ran, I believe, collegiately. Again Episode 134 so check that out. And all of Sarah in her own words, as I’m sure I’m going to paraphrase and mess it up. 

[00:07:57] But she talked about her story about again, like you using running as a tool that kind of fed into disordered eating and then having to, at least for her case, remove herself from running for a little bit to kind of find a more positive place for her before she could come back and be in a more healthy space and not be, for her, it meant gaining weight.

And like being more accepting of who she is. I’ll say heavier, but I don’t mean just in comparison to where she was and knowing like that’s perfectly fine. And then going on to the point of like. She’s actually stronger runner now than she was then, is able to do more and is happier with the sport. Not as like I’ll say stressed, although that’s not quite a good enough encompassing word for the situation.

Filsan: [00:09:10] Yeah. I feel like it was. For me, I didn’t really remove myself from the sport. So what ended up happening is in my typical manner or fashion, I chose to run away from my problems in Toronto. I was living in Toronto for about 13 years and then around 2017 I decided to move to Vancouver, B.C. and I came here mainly for running. But, you know, of course it was I the thinking was I changed location. I will be a happier person. And over here, a lot of the runners that I came in community with were ultra runners and trail runners.

[00:10:07] And that’s a very different sport than running on road because yeah, I’m sure, you know, it’s a lot more. For one speed at a slower pace. And two, you’re out in nature and it forces you to slow down. It forces you, forces you to take note of your surroundings. And there’s that heightened self-awareness. So turning to words that I would say became this gateway for me to seek therapy because I realized that I was not going to solve any of my problems on my own.

[00:10:51] But having said that, too, I sort of switched up my my approach to running. Every time I would run, there was the intention that I’m running to be alone with my body, to rediscover myself and to unlearn a lot of stories I told myself about what it is my body should look like or how it is I should be in my body and sort of using running to help redevelop that relationship with myself and that’s how self-love came to play a big role in my running because I feel like I never really had that. Growing up and it’s what led to the creation of Project Love Run.

[00:11:46] And so yeah, I switched up my running to fall in love with myself and that became my goal and I feel like as a result, I healed my relationship to my body and became very more in tune with my body. So, yeah.

Jesse: [00:12:11] You were you were talking about working on or changing. Maybe disrupting is the right word. Thinking about like cognitive behavioral therapy, like that method is very popular nowadays. The stories, those negative stories as internalized messages that you had about yourself and who you are and maybe who you should be. Obviously, this is conjecture. So you, the listener, can take it as that.

[00:12:43] But I do like to ask, like. I think we all internalize different messages that we get from all kinds of different places. So I’d like to ask you about do you know where those messages came from for you? And is there or do you think there’s a way that we can so I guess stop the flow of this kind of negative self-worth and messaging before it gets ingrained in people. So. So, two parter, I guess.

Filsan: [00:13:25] Okay. So the first part, I think those messages for me just came from the spaces that I was in. So I talked about being a personal trainer first before I became a runner and just being in that fitness space. A lot of the messaging there I later on discovered is sort of all about policing your body and controlling your body. Watching what you eat and making sure you maintain a certain weight or look. There’s a certain image that a lot of trainers strive to attain.

[00:14:07] And those were some of my goals. And so being anything other than that image led to a lot of the problems and complications that I had. And the messaging that I got was like, you had to be this way thin most of the time, you know, athletic, like lean body fat was demonized, you know. And so striving towards that and not being able to have that all the time, you know, like, made me feel like I was not worthy. And, you know, it could just be me and the way I felt.

[00:15:00] But I think it plays like fitness culture does play a big role in folks and most folks they struggle with with body image and yeah it’s for one that and then I would also say that and diet culture you know it’s like they’re both the symbiotic parasite, you know, the messaging. It’s like diet culture celebrates what weight loss and any weight gain is like a failure. So those messaging is what I was struggling with and how I started to sort of rewrite all of those narratives and look at things differently is I, I turn to words.

[00:15:57] A lot of alternative I’d say also fat activists and their messaging is that, you know, it’s these oppressive systems that make you feel like you are the failure when really it’s something that’s much larger than you. It’s not the individual. And having that message to lean on really helped me a lot. And yeah, I didn’t really do therapy for too long because I couldn’t afford it. And so I really had to work towards finding these alternative sources that reinforced the messaging that I am worthy. And this is not my fault in any sort of way. It’s the systems and the cultures that hold up those systems that make you feel like you’re not worthy.

Jesse: [00:17:10] As you’re talking, I made a note, but then you already answered my question. So I’m going to kind of go back to that. I was going to ask you about kind of like a little kid. You know, I don’t know I don’t know what age kids do this, but it’s like toddler ish age when they start asking why and they just ask why, why? Like over and over until you feel like there’s no answer. And sometimes I feel like. That’s a tool we should be using more in our lives.

[00:17:42] You were talking about how inside of that personal training culture that there’s this all, say, ideal body image that you’re trying to attain. That was your goal. And what you know, obviously you’ve gone through this and you answered this already. So I’ll paraphrase what you said and then please correct me. So, like, I always like to go, why? Like. You know, we get these ideas about like for me in particular, I wanted to be a pro athlete and all of these things that I’d want. But then if you don’t stop and go, why? Sometimes, even if you attain those things, you’re left empty because you didn’t understand the purpose of what you were doing that to begin with.

[00:18:34] And I think you said you felt like you needed to attain this to feel worthy. I feel like that motivates a lot of people, like the need for to be worthy or to be loved or to be accepted. They all kind of live in that same realm where it’s like. You know, we we want to belong to be acknowledged or to have some kind of self worth and, like, strive for this external signal that we’re worthy.

You know, maybe in your case, getting to that whatever that ideal body image was, or for me being a pro athlete and knowing I’m good enough as an athlete. But that tool of like, why, why, why that toddler-like, why is such an interesting, like, drill down? So did you I guess I want to ask is. Did you do something like that, or was it a more roundabout way of kind of parsing apart that situation?

Filsan: [00:19:40] Well, for me, it was through community. I would have to say that I came to these conclusions. And so, again, to give you more context. I moved to Vancouver. I realize I had to see a therapist to help me because I didn’t have all the answers myself. Seeing a therapist really helped me piece together also the why of some of my struggles. And when I left therapy, I started journaling with the intention to just sort of uncover some of those stories I told myself.

[00:20:27] And basically, I started writing some love notes to myself and I continue to do that even after like therapy, like for four months after I continued writing to myself and a lot of this I brought into the community, you know, the intention piece of of running with the awareness that you’re running in a space that sort of welcomes a few certain few doesn’t feel welcoming to others and interrogating those things in community and also doing that inner work afterwards, continuing that inner work afterwards and so. Yeah. I feel like. Constantly asking why and then sharing that in community to see the other answers and responses that are there. Yeah. I don’t know if I lost my train of thought. I don’t know if I answered your question. Sorry.

Jesse: [00:21:56] Well, I lose my train of thought all the time. Anyway radio listeners regularly will have heard me say, I don’t know what I was going to ask though, so I think you kind of let into it a little bit. But the overarching question is, well, so you all say dealt with your demons, though? We all have. I guess I can’t speak for you. I guess it’s a continual progress process for me. Things pop up from time to time when you go get back.

[00:22:31] But so Project Love Run. You know, you worked on yourself. You’re already part of community. So I think that’s maybe the answer. But what I want to ask is why start something? I mean, that’s it’s a lot of effort, right? You’ve expanded to five cities. Now, clearly, this is not just you getting together with a couple of friends on the weekend and calling it a day like there’s more than that. So so can you walk me through the decision or maybe the process of saying, okay, let’s try to make this a thing? And did you have the idea that you wanted it to be multi cities, or was it just like, let’s see, see what happens?

Filsan: [00:23:21] You know, the idea of the mall, the multiple cities sort of took rude on its own. It was like an organic growth. I was in Toronto when I founded it in 2016 and then when I moved here because I was still trying to find a home here and feel like I was at home in a new city.

It didn’t start up immediately here and while I was in therapy I hadn’t started it up here. But after my therapy and when I didn’t no longer have that to lean on as a support, it made sense to sort of cultivate this community space here in Vancouver, where I would feel supported by other like-minded women and I would be able to share some of my struggles and stories of struggles that I was facing and feel like I was heard and just that release and in that safe setting was therapeutic.

[00:24:41] And, you know, as you share your stories, you realize that your story is not unique. A lot of folks are struggling in the same ways. And that sort of just helps reinforce the messaging that it’s not you. It’s something bigger than you and yeah, it is a lot of work to have it in different cities and to keep it going. But I think the beauty of it is that it’s just a community space where we’re all we’re in all the cities the Project Love Run is in, we’re all guided by the same philosophy of where we use running as a medium to emphasize self-love and self-worth.

[00:25:33] We use our monthly themes to unpack how running culture intersects with these oppressive systems. So, for example, every month we focus on a different theme. Last month we focused on body positivity and how it’s been co-opted by brands to represent one thing, and it’s lost its roots, which was more which stemmed from fat activism. And so we target, we tackle these bigger issues as a community and the whole idea is just to show women that collectively we can heal together and there are ways, possible ways of overcoming these barriers and doing so in community is a lot more easier than doing it on your own.

Jesse: [00:26:41] There’s a lot of things to unpack here. Good things. But just so. I guess I’ll touch on the you’re talking about the idea of some of these positive things being co-opted by corporations, basically as a means of marketing and virtue signaling almost or maybe not almost to qualifiers. Probably not needed there. My brain is not fast enough to work this out, so I’m hoping you can help me. I think so. As anybody listening knows, I try to work these things out in real-time. And sometimes my brain doesn’t work. Right. So. So I always say, I’ll just make an ass of myself. And then you can help. Help me figure it out.

[00:27:36] So when I think about. Let’s say, like women’s empowerment or just self love in general, right? Pick a niche doesn’t really matter. There’s going to be some brand that big or small that probably identifies and uses it as a marketing message. In some ways, I can see it as like. Like obviously this conversation is associated with my brain and I’m not trying to co-opt what you have to say and hopefully giving you a platform to speak speak your mind.

[00:28:14] And I try to do that from a place of authenticity. But I also think about like as you scale that message, do you lose that authenticity? And then I guess I, I don’t know that I have a question, but just I’m thinking about the conflicts between having a big platform. So let’s say like like I’m a nobody, basically, but let’s say like a major brand, a Nike, Gatorade, a whoever. It’s like a multi-national kind of brand. Co ops a message. Obviously, that message now gets in front of a lot more people and hopefully they can see, as you mentioned, like that there are other people that identify maybe as they do or that share similar stories.

[00:29:09] But then also the brand gets that positive feedback by association when the message may in some ways get watered down at the same time and lose that authenticity. So I guess I just ask you for your thoughts maybe. I guess it’s not a fully cogent question by any means, but I’m just trying to think about the dichotomy between like trying to help. People come together and share their stories with each other and then seeing seeing that other people share similar ideologies or experiences. Brain’s ability to share that message quickly, but then also the negative side of that. So I guess could you talk to me about that situation in your thoughts on that?

Filsan: [00:30:02] Yeah. So I feel like with brands, they tend to like, you know, they’re driven by sales and and so what sells is what they’re going to focus on. And so when it comes to body positivity, this messaging right now, which emphasizes empowerment and feelings and bodies, it resonates with a lot of peopl. And at the same time, it’s you know, it’s I would say, like with the brands, what ends up happening and what’s the downside to them Using their platform to share this messaging is that its certain people that get centered and are represented.

[00:31:02] With this messaging to make it sell. And that leaves out a huge, vast number of other folks that are not like, you know, like one necessarily result in sales or so, for example. I’ll get more specific because I feel like I’m just talking very vaguely right now. To be more specific. So the messaging of body positivity right now, if you search it up on Instagram, tends to send center a lot of thin, white, able bodied, you know, cis women and women that don’t feel confident in their bodies for whatever reasons, like, let’s say, having roles and cellulite and extra body fat.

[00:32:08] That messaging. Although positive, for lack of a better word, doesn’t really tackle the real issue that is, you know. What most folks in marginalized bodies are fighting for, which, for example, fat activists talking about, you know, anti fat bias and and weight stigma and all of these things. They’re not sexy to talk about. So. That often gets left off on the side. And then it’s just about targeting the majority and making sales and capturing a new audience with this messaging, that’s what it becomes turns into.

[00:33:04] So body positive activity as it is right now has become that. It’s just an empty. Empty slogan. I would say it’s it’s not doing much to target those systemic issues that exist in our societies that force folks to want to change their bodies to or control their bodies, to fit in and to feel like they belong and to feel like they’re worthy. I hope that answers.

Jesse: [00:33:42] I don’t think anything of the conversation would be as a straight this is the absolute answer. So I wouldn’t feel obligated in that regard. This is something I, I guess I’ll say I struggle with, obviously, as a relatively thin, straight white guy. I’m very overrepresented in all kinds of stuff. You know what I mean? Like. Just clones of me are everywhere. Pretty much. And I try to be conscious of like when I’m putting together like right now, I just did a, I just redid labels for my like swim series and I need new, I need photos and stuff with people.

[00:34:29] And so I try to be conscious of getting like a diverse group of men and women. Actually, it’s more women that use the product to model with it. I’m also limited by like who’s available in my own price range. But the thing I struggle with is. I and maybe it’s maybe this is like imposter syndrome. So maybe I’m seeking validation. I don’t know. Again, I just thought I completely thought out.

[00:35:03] But the thing I struggle with is like. I want to try to be authentic and not just be like like I mentioned earlier, like just virtue signaling, like, “Oh, look at my diverse portfolio of people that are modeling with my product.” You know what I mean? Like, that’s just bullshit like that if you come from that and it’s like, I’m not trying to come from that place, but like I questioned myself. I’m like. Like. Like, how do I.

How do I do this authentically, I think is the thing that I struggle with because I run a company and I do want to sell products, but it’s like and I also understand it and try to understand and hear the reality is that people that don’t look like me. So I guess can you hopefully educate me a little bit and give me a little insight? Like, how would you, I guess, approach my situation if you were in my shoes?

Filsan: [00:36:04] I feel like it’s just drawing an awareness to the fact that that is a struggle that you’re faced with. You know, first of all, you’re trying to sell a product and you know your audience better. It’s probably a majority of folks that have this the privileges of being in an able body, a smaller body. So. That is one thing. The other thing is like the market for folks in larger bodies like it. I can’t speak to it exactly like when it comes to product and stuff because I’m not in that field.

[00:36:53] But what I think is like a lot of brands do say that it costs money to make products a certain way. And I feel like that sometimes is just an excuse and we need to be talking to. Even me sitting here right now, I am in a smaller body. I am in an able body. So unless I have that conversation with someone who doesn’t have those privileges, will I know how to go about doing it differently, you know, and just to come back to Project Love Run and the space that we have. We’re trying to foster that.

[00:37:44] And so for me, sharing this theme, even on the commodification of body positivity, speaking to it, I am not someone who identifies as a black person. And when I’m using that and using it in a neutral term, but I’m there speaking as an ally, drawing an awareness to how our societies are are set up to to favor folks in smaller bodies or in certain ways.

So. I think. Yeah. Just initiating those conversations with the right people is a place to start, I would say. And then centering their experience and trying to incorporate that somehow into what you’re doing like. Yeah. I hope I can talk more about how this into like this theme intersects with running culture. But when it comes to the product itself, like I don’t have much experience with the product.

Jesse: [00:39:05] It doesn’t have to be my particular product. It’s just, like I said, just trying to come from that place of like. So, like, I know because it’s my job to learn, try to learn about these things. Sometimes I think about, like I referred to this on the previous podcast throughout the years, which ones I couldn’t tell you at this point. But like the dark side of marketing is what I like to refer to it as. Like there’s it’s almost like Star Wars, there’s the light side and there’s the dark side.

[00:39:32] And like your goal is obviously to persuade somebody to buy something, hopefully from a place of like I genuinely want to help them and I want to show them that this product can help them with their problem. But they’re like the dark side of marketing, and I’ll refer to as the dark side of marketing, like preys on your insecurities and then uses those insecurities as a point of persuasion to go like, you’re not good enough. But if you, if you buy this special thing, like it’s going to fill that hole in your heart. And that’s the part where it’s like. I think is a very clear line of delineation where you go, that’s not right.

[00:40:18] But it’s like there’s gray. There’s gray in between. Or it’s like sometimes like as an example, like my best selling product deals with like, like fungus on your skin, which is not like a fun conversation for most people to have, right? And that in itself can lead to, like, insecurities. So it’s like. That product can help you with that problem, which leads to insecurities. But I have the option to go either way. Like to prey on the insecurities and be like, nobody loves you unless you use this product or know like, did it just solve the problem? Like, you know what I mean? I don’t know. I’m rambling a little bit, but it’s a tough position to be in, I think. And a place of privilege, but a tough position nonetheless.

Filsan: [00:41:17] I think interrogating that and asking why is it set up that way? Why? Why is it this way? And and if you unpack that further, you’ll realize that our societies are governed by white supremacy and these otheroppressive systems that make it that way. So I think just realizing that is a big step in and moving in a different direction and making attempts to disrupt that system.

Jesse: [00:42:02] Yeah. I think the. One of the things that. Is tough and I think people would certainly disagree with me. And I’m open to being wrong about. So. Gosh, why do I just forget her name? It’ll come to me. Another guest. We’re having a really good conversation, basically, about the systems of oppression that exists within our cultures. We’ll speak to the North American culture since they don’t really know enough about cultures abroad to speak to them and how it’s hard, number one, to identify them, especially if you benefit from them, i.e. me, because I, I get the positive right. Like I get the positive side of it. Like I don’t things go smoothly for me or smoother.

[00:42:58] And so it’s sometimes I think it’s difficult for people that benefit from a system to be self-aware enough to realize that there are parts of that system in place that don’t benefit others. It takes, I think, one, empathy, because if you lack empathy, like, you’re going to be like as the often thrown around phrase on the Internet, fuck you, I got mine. You know what I mean? Like, I’m good. I don’t need to help anybody else.

[00:43:31] But the thing I think is difficult that I struggle with. For various reasons. Is that when you were trying to. Combat a system of oppression regardless of what it is. Coming at it from a place of. Creation and building in a positive direction. I’ll say more like Martin Luther King, like nonviolent protest or Gandhi. But this is where I say people might certainly disagree with me because there are some who would say, well, violent revolution is the only answer to a violent system of repression.

[00:44:15] And I will be the first to admit I certainly don’t have the answer. I’m willing to try to struggle with it, but I don’t have the answer. But I’d like to think the kind of idealist in me goes like, I wish love could change all. You know what I mean? It’s tough because it feels like. It feels like violence only begets more violence. Even if it does break a system of oppression, does it create a new system of oppression which then needs to be broken? So I just again, it’s a question I don’t have an answer to.

Filsan: [00:44:52] Yeah. Well, see, okay. For me, I, I, I know that. For so many reasons a lot of folks the whole the idea of self-love and that messaging feels just so out of touch and so very woo-woo and I think just drawing an awareness to that fact that not everyone is at that place and I’ll just use again Project Love Run as an example.

Jesse: [00:45:30] Yeah, yeah, please.

Filsan: [00:45:30] Our community is founded on a love ethic and I’m inspired by folks like Bell Hooks and Audre Lorde and and using their messaging to just bring women together and just having them having us in communities share stories of how a lot of us are navigating inherited body shame and that makes us feel unworthy. And then also sharing stories about how. A lot of us are conditioned to believe that our bodies need constant fixing and that these products are going to be the solution to that. And, you know, just showcasing constantly that all of these issues are a byproduct of our loveless societies that are governed by these oppressive systems. And these systems profit off our insecurities, just like what you were saying.

[00:46:32] So. I hear. I hear one when folks say that you need like a stronger force or, you know, what you said violence to to uproot and disrupt these systems. I don’t really agree with that messaging. I feel like, you know. To learn to love yourself in a world that makes you feel unloved and unworthy is like a superpower. And then once you’ve discovered that self-love, you’re more able to love other folks as a result.

[00:47:24] And you start to learn the truths about how our systems of domination operate and. They benefit from us feeling like we need to go against each other and go against ourselves and. And we’re not just we’re not going to do that. We’re going to choose to love to move to. To move against these prevailing values of the culture of dominance, if that makes any sense. But using self-love as that starting place to work towards something different than what already exists. Oops. Yeah.

Jesse: [00:48:14] No, I’m with you. Filsan, as we’re. Excuse me, because we’re kind of running down on time. I ask everybody the same question for a season, so I have a new question every single season. And this season’s question I’d like to ask you and I’m hoping or I think you’ll probably have a unique answer is how do you celebrate your wins?

Filsan: [00:48:45] How do I celebrate my wins? Taking a moment with just a moment to reflect on all it took to get there and just living in that moment for a bit longer. And I do that by just constantly journaling and reflecting my thoughts on. Yeah. On the small things, the small feats.

Jesse: [00:49:21] It’s something I like that question my entrepreneur friend of mine suggested that for me she she suggests much like the why question that we don’t celebrate our wins enough. So that’s why I wanted to focus on it this season to hopefully bring some collective wisdom because at the end of the year, then I, we put all of the answers together to make a video. So hopefully, can help people find new ways to one to acknowledge that they should celebrate their wins.

I’m terrible at that. I’m working on it and and then hopefully see different ways that you can do that. It’s not always about a big outward show and parties. And like you said, maybe it’s just taking a moment and reflecting or writing down about what it is. So thank you for sharing that. Those people who want to find you, engage with Project Love Run. Where can they do that?

Filsan: [00:50:23] Well, on Instagram, you can find us on the gram, like they say, @ProjectLoveRun and at for the community updates and inspiration and then for my personal account that is runner’s instinct @runnersinstinct. I also do write on the blog quite a lot on projectloverun.com so they can check that out, the website and. Yeah.

Jesse: [00:51:02] Sounds good. Thanks. Thanks for hanging out with me today.

Filsan: [00:51:05] Thank you. Yeah, it was a great conversation. And yeah, nice chatting with you as well.

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